University of Washington Its Bigger Than Hip Hop Book Questions

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How does knowing this longer history of the Jewish ghettos effect your present day understanding of it as a geographical/political space? Did this article make you think differently about the segregation policies of the United States? How so? What did you think of the form of the article? Was it effective? Please state your reasoning for your answers.

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Copyright © 2008 by M. K. Asante, Jr. All rights reser Printed in the United States of America. For information, address St. ~artin's Press, Fifth Avenue, New York, N.Y. 10010. IT's BIGGER THAN HIP HOP. www.stmartins.com Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data Asante, Molefi K., 1981lt's bigger than hip hop: the rise of the post-hip-hop generation I M. K. Asante, Jr.-1st ed. p. em. Includes bibliographical references and index. ISBN-13: 978-0-312-37326-9 ISBN-10: 0-312-37326-0 1. Mrican Americans-Social conditions. 2. Mrican Americans-Intellectual life. 3. Mrican Americans in popular culture. 4. Mrican Americans-Race identity. 5. Popular culture-United States. 6. Hip hop-United States. 7. Rap (Music)-History and criticism. 8. Music-Social aspects-United States. 9. Mrican American youth-Attitudes. I. Title. E185.6l.A725 2008 305.235089'96073-dc22 2008019523 First Edition: September 2008 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 A ghetto can be improved in only one way: out of existence. -JAMES BALDWIN rst off, thanks for granting me this interview. o problem. It's time for me to set the record straight. out . . . ? out me. Who I am. And actually, more importantly, why I am who m. See, people who live in me know me on an intimate and visceral el, while people who live elsewhere probably know what I look like. Which people? All types of people: brilliant, courageous, beautiful, crazy, funny, ented, strong, injured, soulful. All types. Geeks. Shoemakers. Sc ars. Comedians. Athletes. Scientists. Lovers. The whole spectrum. The common denominator is that they're economically poor Mrican-American. I'm curious about your name, "Ghetto." What does it mean? Where does i come from? Linguists trace it back to the I tal ian words ''getto " (to cast off) "borghetto" (small neighborhood), the Venetian slang "gheto," Griko ''ghetonia" (neighborhood), and the Hebrew word ''get" (bil divorce). The first time my name was written was when English traveler writer Thomas Coryat, on a foot journey through Europe, descri "the place where the whole fraternity of the Jews dwelleth togeth which is called the Ghetto." And what year was that? 1611. Early in its usage it meant a walled-off and gated section in ci where Jews were confined. The word was mostly used in Italy, n port cities like Venice where a lot of Jews lived and worked. Jews w IGGER THAN HIP HOP 35 d under strict regulations, forced to live together, and put on ws that prevented them from being out at certain times. As if wasn't enough, sumptuary laws forced Jews to wear special stared yellow badges and yellow berets, identifying themselves as and opening themselves up to taunts and attacks by Christians were the majority. . Did other writers back in the day write about your name? , lots. In 1879, British writer Dean Farrar writes about the ghetto ife of St. Paul. Edward Dowden, a nineteenth-century literary , makes many references to ghettos in his analysis of Percy Bysshe ey. British author Israel Zangwill wrote the books Children of the to and Dreamers of the Ghetto, both biographical studies. In 1908, London in Martin Eden explains that his characters "plunged off into the heart of the working-class ghetto." Despite its usage by writers, it wasn't widely discussed or popular. did it become widely known? word blew up in the mid-1930s when the Nazis took power and p ghettos that, just like in previous times, confined Jews into ped, tightly packed areas of the inner cities of Eastern Europe. ever, unlike previous ghettos in Europe, these ghettos were imrished, overcrowded, and disease-plagued areas enclosed by stone ick walls, wooden fences, and barbed wire. And, if Jews tried to Of course. Take the Warsaw ghetto, as an example of institution overcrowding, where Jews, who were 30 percent of the populatio were forced to live in 2.4 percent of the city's area-about ten peop per room. Most apartments had no sanitation, piped water, or sewe Starvation was rife. So, similarly, during my birth in America, Urban Renewal (whic behind closed doors, was called "nigger removal") was all about sy tematically uprooting Blacks from sections of the city deemed "val able," then forcing them into projects. For every ten homes that th destroyed, they only built one new unit in the projects-institution overcrowding. Many things are the same: the social isolation; the normalized te ror by authorities; and state-sponsored racism, to name a few. And what about other ghettos around the world-do you see yourself as related to them? Of course. Every .ghetto-from Soweto to L'!le-Saint-Denis, fro Brixton to Chiapas, from favelas to shantytowns-! am one with. Why? 'Cause oppression is oppression is oppression, man. 11 Some people say that you're a ttstate of mind ? Which people? BIGGER THAN HIP HOP 37 survival is a state of mind. That's where soul comes from. hat's soul? is graceful survival against impossible circumstances. 's heavy. All right now, can you talk about your roots as the Black ican ghetto? nitely. ll right, so, 40 Acres & A Mule is not just the name of Spike Lee's company, it's also the colloquial term for the reparations that supposed to be issued to enslaved Mricans after the Civil Waracres of farmland and a mule to cultivate that land. The official e was Special Field Orders, No. 15, and it was issued on January 865, by Maj. Gen. William Sherman. hat happened? , when President Abraham Lincoln was killed, Andrew Johnson, eplacement, revoked Sherman's orders. The very few Blacks who already received land had it quickly taken away. bolishing slavery with no restitution is like opening the door to a n cell, while leaving all other exits bolted, chained, and locked, telling an inmate that "they are free." The cell door, although less than 5 percent of industrial northern cities like Detroit, Chic Philadelphia, et cetera. Blacks in the North, because of racism discrimination, weren't allowed to work in factories or join uni which reduced them to the lowest, dirtiest, grimiest, nastiest jo jobs no one else would do. Beginning around 1914, though, large numbers of Blacks sta moving to industrial hubs like New York City, Philadelphia, B more, Maryland, Detroit, Chicago, etcetera. Because things were so bad in the South? It was "so bad" everywhere. But mainly because World War I, w began in 1914, called for a lot of unskilled factory workers. you know when America needs weapons, they don't care who m ' em. Blacks kept coming North, looking for work, even after the was over. During the twenties alone, over two million Blacks c North in hopes of a better life. You had a lot of Blacks looking work in an already impossible job market, then the Depression h But that affected pretty much everybody, right? Yeah, everybody was affected. But while everybody was affected, must remember: Blacks were the first to get fired when things got and the last ones to get hired once things finally picked up. But 'S BIGGER THAN HIP HOP 39 asn't the worst of it by any stretch of the imagination. What hapened next was unconscionable: President Franklin D. Roosevelt cut Black people out of his plan to lleviate the poverty of the national Depression. ow? t was clear that Social Security-which provided benefits to retirees nd the unemployed, and a lump-sum benefit at death-and Mandaory Minimum Insurance were proven methods of reducing and alleiating poverty. Roosevelt drafted these programs under his Committee on Ecoomic Security, and they were passed by Congress under his New eal. One of the major problems was that both of these acts exluded domestics and agricultural workers, who made up more than wo-thirds of the Black workforce. Then with all ofan you- an you let me finish? y bad. haven't even got to the worst part yet. ll right, please continue. The catch was that the FHA refused to guarantee mortgage Black communities due to a process called redlining. In mos these places, Blacks couldn't receive loans at all. Once the FHA fused to give loans to Blacks, private lenders replicated the gov ment's policy and position, which, really, was about denying B humanity. Can you talk about what redlining is and how it affected you? The term "redlining" was coined in the 1960s by activists in Chic It refers to a process where affluent or white neighborhoods were lined in blue and considered type "A"; working class neighborh were outlined in yellow and considered type "B"; and of course, B neighborhoods were outlined in bloodred ink and considered "D." These maps were created for FHA manuals as well as pr lenders. The FHA advised banks to stay away from areas with "in monious racial groups" and recommended that municipalities e racially restrictive zoning ordinances and prevent Black home ership. During the second great migration (1940-1970), when 4.5 mi Blacks came North, industrial cities decided to segregate the in trial from the residential areas. Remember, during this time, B had absolutely no political power and overt racism was at an all- high. Therefore many Black areas were tagged as industrial neigh hoods. S BIGGER THAN HIP HOP 41 d what did that industrial tag mean? e industrial tag prevented these neighborhoods from undergoing y new construction and even limited the improvements that could made. , why didn't Blacks just leave these red lined areas? ose redlined areas were me. I told you earlier that I'm a place ere people are forced to live, because of discrimination via racism the real estate market and segregation. Blacks could not, I repeat uld not, live where they pleased, even if they had the money, and cause of those things I ju~t mentioned, they probably didn't. you've been around for a long time? ell yes, but I didn't always look like I do now. See, during the sixties and before, Blacks, although segregated and lated, lived in me very viably. I was anchored by Black-owned busisses and Black-run institutions. Believe it or not, "crime" during s period was not a problem in me. But then ... ck? hoa-not yet, slow down. That's later. Way before crack, there was "nigger removal," as it was sometimes lled by government officials. I mean forced out. Eminent domain, the process whereby the s seizes private property for government or private use, gives the g ernment the authority to jack residents. Where did the displaced Blacks go? Uncle Sam decided that they needed to construct new areas for th displaced Blacks to live. So they built shabby, health-hazardous, ch housing in me called housing projects. For every ten homes they destroyed, they built one unit in projects. So is this why you are the way you are today? Not quite-there are a few more things that happened to me t I feel contributed significantly to who I am today. On top of "nigger removal," the federal interstate system ha devastating effect on me physically and psychologically. Whe wasn't razed for Urban Renewal, they would build highways t went right through me and separated my people from others. T created further isolation for Blacks and it simultaneously created sulation for whites as they fled to the suburbs. Thanks to these new highways, though, whites could get i the city when they needed to. Between 1950 and 1970, 70 mill whites fled the city and moved to the suburbs. The reason this wh flight was so devastating is that whites took jobs with them wh BIGGER HIP 43 left and eventually moved businesses out of me and into the urbs. oon after, the factories left, too. See, post-World War II the facs had been one of the primary ways for Blacks to climb out of quicksand of poverty. However, those jobs fled with the whites. he suburbs? overseas. Multinational corporations got out of me and headed for es like India, Indonesia, and other impoverished nations of the ld. Places where the wages are dramatically less, unions are illegal, e are no environmental or labor laws. So, they've got twelve-yearworking sixteen hours, making pennies per day. When companies 't go overseas, they use prison labor instead of creating real jobs, ch is, in essence, slave labor. I mean, the rates they pay prisoners s what they might pay a child in an impoverished country. r corporations do this? rican Airlines, Boeing, Compaq, Dell, Eddie Bauer, Chevron, lett-Packard, Honeywell, IBM, JCPenney, TWA, McDonald's, rosoft, Motorola, Nordstrom, Pierre Cardin, Revlon, Sony, Texas ruments, Victoria's Secret, and Toys "R" Us, to name a few. addition, the mechanization of many low-skilled jobs left a lot eople well below the poverty line. So jobs in the domestic and ser- Which one? It's called "Message to the Grassroots." He says, This modern house Negro loves his master. He wants to live near him. He'll pay three times as much as the house is worth just to liv near his master, and then brag about ''I'm the only Negro out here ''I'm the only one on my job. " "I'm the only one in this school. " You're nothing but a house Negro. And if someone comes to you right now and says, "Let's separate," you say the same thing that th house Negro said on the plantation. "What you mean, separate? From America? This good white man? Where you going to get a better job than you get here?" I mean, this is what you say. ''J ain' left nothing in Africa," that's what you say. You left your mind in Africa. [A chuckle is shared] I know this is kind of off topic, but I gotta ask: Why are there so many d check-cashing places, liquor stores, and take-out Chinese restauran you? Actually, not off topic at all. I just told you that the Black mi class fled. Well, when affluent Blacks left me and bounced to suburbs, the businesses, following the money, left, too. To give y popular example, there were, during segregation, more than t BIGGER THAN HOP 45 dred Black movie houses around the country. You're a filmmaker, t? Tell me how many are there now. y, let's see, urn- ctly. o with the flight or destruction of viable Black businesses, that only the businesses you mentioned-the businesses whose priy goal is to capitalize on Black poverty. Check-cashing spots capze and exploit low-wage earners unable to afford a bank account who need quick money; pawnshops capitalize on poor folks who d to liquidate personal valuables in order to make rent. Fast-food nese restaurants, through the thick bulletproof glass, capitalize on Black poor by offering food-very unhealthy food that the ownadmittedly don't eat-to Blacks at a low monetary cost but with health costs. And liquor stores, which can be found on nearly y corner, capitalize on the depression and despair that come with g poor and living in me. .James once commented: "One thing 'bout the ghetto, you don't have orry, it'll be there tomorrow." That said, where do you see yourself in years? l depends. me have extremely high rates of diabetes, hypertension, heart dise and asthma. Not only are my residents more likely to have illne but because they are poor, they are more likely to be limited by t conditions. Health issues prevent many from working or, at the l limit their productivity-ultimately lowering income. Asthma, lead poisoning, malnutrition, anemia, ear infectio all of these are not only costly to treat or even diagnose, but all to permanent impairments. So, for example, children who liv me are twice as likely to suffer from lead poisoning, which m many studies have shown has serious effects on the brain cau learning problems, hyperactivity, coordination issues, aggression ratic behavior, and brain damage. There is a lot of lead in much of housing in me, especially in the projects, so children are expose lead. See, health is connected to everything. Both lead poisoning asthma are severe problems on their own; however, they mushr because they greatly diminish a child's school performance and the leading causes of absenteeism. Not to mention many children malnourished, which leads to headaches, lack of concentration, quent colds, and fatigue. You would think that schools in me w be more equipped to deal with these kind of issues, but they are a ally given less funds. It's a systematic holocaust. Every illness, especially untreated, makes it more difficult to with an already extremely difficult environment. People who liv BIGGER THAN HIP HOP 47 are more likely to work and live in conditions that are detrimental heir health. at do you- , not to mention that just being poor-period-and the stress poverty is a huge detriment to one's health. r. King, in a book called Where Do ~Go From Here: Chaos or munity? saidyou paraphrasing? , I memorized it. It's that good. He said, he children sclothes are too skimpy to protect them from the Chicago ind, and a closer look reveals the mucus in the corners of their bright yes, and you are reminded that vitamin pills and flu shots are luxuies which they can ill afford The "runny noses" of ghetto children ecome a graphic symbol of medical neglect in a society which has astered most of the diseases from which they will too soon die. There s something wrong in a society which allows this to happen. t do you think can be done about this? ple need universal health care, for starters, to begin to climb out of desolate pits of poverty. Right now, nearly all of my citizens, and y Income, a gram that provides benefits to those permanently disabled, and work compensation, a program that provides benefits to workers who h been injured on the job. Everyone who cannot work should rec benefits. Right now, people who have been temporarily disabled f injuries caused off the job cannot receive benefits from either progr What's worse is that even those who are permanently disabled mental illness, disability due to addiction, and hard-to-prove condit like back pain-are not eligible to receive any benefits. How much would all this cost? That can't be determined for sure, but consider this: in 1999, "poverty gap," which is the amount of money needed to raise all incomes to at least the poverty line, was $65 billion. Yearly So Security income is $500 billion. And the tax cut we got in 2001 $1.3 trillion. America has the loot. Why are your schools, some of which I attended, failing? Because poor Mrican-Americans are forced into me, my schools almost completely segregated. Secondary and elementary schools funded mainly through local taxes, so my schools have much fe resources per child and significantly less money to fund education My students are bringing noneducational issues like hunger, mestic violence, homelessness, abuse, and many other personal pr lems that demand greater resources. However, despite this, my scho IGGER THIN HIP HOP 49 tting far less nnoney than, say, suburban schools, which don't o deal with these issues. ead you a passage? I came across it recently and it echoes this go ahead. from Savage Inequalities: Children in America/s Schools by Jonathan on't tell students in this school about 'the dream. ' Go and look a toilet here if you would like to know what life is like for stuts in this city. " Before I leave, I do as Christopher asked and enter a boys' bathm. Four of the six toilets do not work. The toilet stalls, which are n away by red and brown corrosion, have no doors. The toilets e no seats. One has a rotted wooden stump. There are no paper els and no soap. Near the door there is a loop of wire with an ty toilet-paper roll. "This," says Sister julia, "is the best school that we have in East St. is." lmost anyone who visits in the schools of East St. Louis, even for ort time, comes away profoundly shaken. These are innocent chiln, after all. They have done nothing wrong. They have committed hungry. Do you think the U.S. government cares? Follow the money, the budget, and you'll see what the governm cares about. The U.S. budget represents not only political and nomic interests, but moral ones as well. Don't believe what politic tell you their priorities are, look at the budget and decide for yours A child is born into poverty every forty-three seconds, and with health insurance every minute in America. This is public informat One of the most common misconceptions is that the governm can't solve the poverty problem and that everything that could po bly be done has been tried. The government can in fact solve problem and it's not that expensive. The reality is they haven't b willing to consider eradicating poverty in this country. So what do we do? Didn't Frederick Douglass say that "Power concedes nothing with a demand. It never did and it never will." Yeah, he did. Well, there you go. It's up to the people, in me and outside of me, to make this a ority. Demand justice and true equality. But they don't understand because of misrepresentation. That's w I agreed to this interview. IGGER THAN HIP HOP 51 One once said, "It's not a novelty, you can love your neighborhood ut loving poverty." Do you agree with that? definitely. Poverty is nothing to love. My image has been disd and misrepresented, though, so you have a white media that glorifies and demonizes me at the same time, while never really ssing who I am. ke it you feel misrepresented? ourse. There is me, as I am, with all of the institutional, political, mic, and structural racist policies, and then there is my image ails to address any of this in a real way. e misrepresentation leads to a public consensus about my resi. They believe, both those who reside elsewhere and, sadly, those reside in me,· that their poverty is their fault. That they are lazy, ted, sexually promiscuous, and so on and so forth, and that this reason for the poverty, when the reality, as I've touched upon, is letely different. To give you a quick example, most people who n me are not addicted to drugs or alcohol, don't engage in crimctivity, and are not on welfare. This would come as a shock to who absorb the images on TV and in movies and the rhymes of stream rappers. erica is a very individualistic society. So, as a result, poor people lamed for their poverty and the rich are credited with their h, disregarding inheritance, class privilege, resources, etcetera. I You can't pull yourself up by the bootstraps if you don't have a damn shoes! What about the violence in you? Violence? [shrugs] Well? Was Nat Turner violent? Uh, I'm not- Reminds me of Nat Turner, because he was not violent, he was sponding to slavery, which was violent. The conditions in which m residents live are violent. There's always been this attempt to dem nize my residents. They call survival after a hurricane "looting." Th call protests against a system that keeps them poor "riots." Look, man, as long as I'm around, there will be desperation. Wh do you expect if you put the poorest folks together in one area, ta away jobs, destroy social networks, police the hell out of them, hara them-I mean, seriously, what do you expect? Is there anything else that you'd like to tell the post-hip-hop generation Organize, organize, organize. The time is now. Thanks for your time. Peace.
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