Please assist in providing me with 2 student responses and 1 response to the professor below. Professor Student 1 (name) Student 2 (name) Professor: You raise a great point about the advanced degree. What about the actual investment of time that the degreed spouse put into actually obtaining the degree, how should that be calculated and should that spouse get a larger portion of the degree because of their labor and intellectual property in obtaining the degree? What are your thoughts about this? What is your best argument for not treating an advanced degree as marital property? • Nicole Locke SundayJan 24 at 6:41pm Manage Discussion Entry PART A: 1. What was the issue before the court? The issue before the court was whether the former husband’s law degree was a marital asset that should be split (Statsky, pg.339). 22-word count 2. What was the holding (the court's answer to the issue)? The court’s answer to the issue was that the former husband’s law degree was valued at $20,000 and awarded this amount to defendant in payments of $2,000 over ten years (Statsky, pg.340). They concluded that the law degree was the result of collective wavering and exertion by both former wife and husband and therefore, a marital asset. 57-word count 3. Many states have held that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution upon divorce. Do you agree or disagree? Explain. I disagree that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution of divorce. There are circumstances, my parents being one of them, where one sacrifices their education so that the other can obtain one. That way, that person can make an increased wage and gather enough funds for the spouse to then obtain their education. In the event of a divorce, the spouse who sacrificed their education should receive monetary compensation. 82-word count 4. Do you think property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage, also known as separate property, should be subject to distribution upon divorce? Why or why not? I do not believe that property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage, also known as separate property, should be subject to distribution upon divorce. I believe that any property that was acquired before marriage should be considered separate property unless it was acquired as a couple before the spouses were married. 57-word count PART B: Do you agree with the court's decision in this case and why? I agree with the court’s decision that the parent that does not hold guardianship should still have child support obligations if the child refuses to visit them. As a parent, you are obligated to support the child whether you are in their life or not. Even if a child does not want to visit, there is still a legal obligation to support the parent that holds guardianship of the child. According to childsupport.ny.gov, “if you are the parent of a child, New York law says you are responsible for the financial support of that child until the child is 21, even if you have never lived with the child or do not live with the child now” (childsupport.ny.gov). 118-word count Should the court have considered the needs of the two other children? I do not believe that the court should have considered the needs of the two other children. The case involved the sixteen-year-old teenager, and therefore, the court should focus on the circumstances surrounding the teen’s decision to refuse visitation with his father. 42-word count Do you think the court would have ruled differently if it had found that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son's decision to terminate visitation? I believe that the court would have ruled Mrs. Carroll in contempt if she had something to do with her son’s decision to terminate visitation. If this is proven, she could serve jail time or be forced to pay a fine. In some states, there could also be a change of custody in which the non-custodial parent receives custody of the kids (divorcenet.com). 63-word count At what age do you think a child's decision not to visit with a parent be considered? I believe that the child’s decision not to visit with a parent should be considered at age 13, when that child becomes a teenager. 24-word count Nicole Locke References New York State Center for Child Well-Being. (n.d.). Child Support. Retrieved January 24, 2021, from https://www.childsupport.ny.gov/dcse/non_custodial_parent_info.html (Li nks to an external site.) Lina Guillen, A. (2013, January 31). How to Deal with an Ex-Spouse Withholding Child Visitation. Retrieved January 24, 2021, from https://www.divorcenet.com/resources/child-custody/child-visitation/howdeal-ex-spouse-withholding-childvisitation#:~:text=Some%20states%20take%20failure%20to,to%20the%20no n%2Dcustodial%20parent (Links to an external site.). Statsky, W. P. (2020). Chapter 8: Spousal Support, Property Division, and the Separation Agreement. In Family law (pp. 339-340). Albany, NY: Delmar. ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile MondayJan 25 at 12:40pm Manage Discussion Entry Nicole, thank you for your responses and for taking the time to list each question, as there were many this week. Regarding the advance degree, what calculation did the court use to determine that $20000 of the value of the degree was to be distributed to the non-degreed spouse as equitable distribution? Do you agree with this method of evaluation? If you were the attorney for the payee in this case, how would you go about evaluating the advance degree, and the portion that should be considered marital property? Prof Bansile ReplyReply to Comment ▪ Collapse SubdiscussionNicole Locke Nicole Locke ThursdayJan 28 at 4:03pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello Professor, After looking at the scenario and specifically page 342, I determined that there was no calculation present that the court used. However, I did see on that on the same page that “In determining the degree’s present value, the trial court should estimate what the person holding the degree is likely to make in that particular job market and subtract from that what he or she would probably have earned without the degree. . . . The ultimate objective in a property distribution is to be fair. . . . Both parties may present new evidence on these matters and the degree’s valuation” (Statsky, pg.342). I do agree with this method of evaluation, as it is fair. If I were the attorney for the payee in this case, I would go about evaluating the advance degree a certain way. I would consider the following factors: ▪ ▪ ▪ the extent of the marriage after the degree was acquired. the sources and magnitude of financial support given by the plaintiff throughout law school. the complete separation of the parties’ marital property. The portion that should be considered marital property is the portion that arises from after the degree was obtained up to the divorce. For example, if they divorced right after he obtained his degree then the plaintiff would be entitled to more compensation. However, if they divorced years later, then the plaintiff would be entitled to less since they benefited some financially from the defendant’s degree. 245-word count Nicole Locke Reference Statsky, W. P. (2020). Chapter 8: Spousal Support, Property Division, and the Separation Agreement. In Family law (pg.342). Albany, NY: Delmar. ReplyReply to Comment ▪ Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile YesterdayJan 29 at 4:43pm Manage Discussion Entry Nicole, thank you for your follow up responses and in particular for pointing out how the court determined the value of the advanced degree. Prof Bansile ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionChristopher Perry Christopher Perry WednesdayJan 27 at 9:43am Manage Discussion Entry Hello Nicole. I appreciate the resources. This is a great way to do studies on child services. The child services does a lot of social work style when children are involved in court battles and divorce cases. I like the factors that the system respect the children. For instance Administration Children services (ACS) here in New York City. They do a very good job on protecting children and their rights. The resources you provided is the same as ACS and a lot more where resources came from. I know lawyers from ACS and they don't want children any where court or battles. I like the fact that the lawyers at ACS comes directly with instructions after court and properly present what is next for the child. ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionLesly Rodriguez Lesly Rodriguez WednesdayJan 27 at 10:03pm Manage Discussion Entry Hi Nicole, this case is unique to me since I never heard of anything like this. I had no idea that a degree could be used as a marital asset if the couple were to divorce. Such information surprised me however, after reading the case I understood the issue better. I agree with your opinion of an advanced degree being marital property and subject to distribution upon divorce. In this case the husband and the wife knew that for the overall success and well-being of the family as a unit, that the family should ensure that they do their part, so that he could attend law school, earn a degree, and pass the bar. The husband accomplished all of his goals and was able to become an attorney however, he made his wife sacrifice her life, her goals, and make decisions she most likely didn’t want to, due to her prioritizing her husband’s end goal. I do believe that in this case and under the circumstances the wife should have been granted monetary compensation due to her making sacrifices such as moving states and not working, to ensure that her husband attended law school and earned a degree. Moreover, I agree with the fact that although the parent is not in the child’s life or in this case the child did not want his father, Mr. Carroll in his life, the father still has an obligation to pay for child support. Overall, great statement however, I would like you to further explain why you feel that 13 is an appropriate age for a child to make a huge and life-altering decision, such as not granting a parent the right to visit them? ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMarcia Hill Marcia Hill ThursdayJan 28 at 11:59pm Manage Discussion Entry Hi Nicole: Nice post. I just want to elaborate on question A(2) and why I think the court took that position in the relief granted to the wife. The court thought that the plaintiff’s law degree was the result of mutual sacrifice and effort by both plaintiff and defendant. While the plaintiff studied and attended classes defendant carried her share of the burden as well as sharing vicariously in the stress of the experience known as “paper chase.” I also think the court’s holding finds support in O’Brien v. O’Brien where the court awarded the defendant $188,000 in anticipation of the plaintiff’s increase capacity for earning. (Woodworth v. Woodworth) Marcy. ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionKatherine Fernandez Katherine Fernandez YesterdayJan 29 at 12:52pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello Nicole, Great and detailed post this week. I do also agree with you that property acquired before the marriage should not be distributed equally if a divorce should occur. I also agree that the law degree acquired by the husband should not be equal property because the husband was the one attending law school and studying for his degree, not his wife. Even though his wife shared the stress of law school with her husband at home, ultimately her husband obtained his degree by his own will. Great job this week, as always! Reagrds, Katherine ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionLesly Rodriguez Lesly Rodriguez TuesdayJan 26 at 2:45pm Manage Discussion Entry PART A: 1. What was the issue before the court? The issue presented before the court was the matter of property division upon divorce. In this case Michael Woodworth was the plaintiff and his wife Ann Woodworth was the defendant. The issue was that Mr. Woodworth went to law school in the 1970s and earned a law degree. His wife Ann was a nursery schoolteacher and claimed once divorced that Mr. Woodworth’s law degree was a marital asset that should be divided. Before stating the court’s answer to the issue, one must know some background of the plaintiff and the defendant. The parties were married on June 27, 1970. At the beginning of the marriage Mr. Woodworth had graduated from Central Michigan University with a bachelor’s degree in secondary education and his wife has graduated from Lansing Community College with an associate degree. The couple then moved to Jonesville, where Mr. Woodworth’s profession was a teacher and coach for the high school, and his wife was a nursery schoolteacher in Hillsdale. It was Fall of 1973 when both parties sold their home and quit their jobs to move to Detroit. While in Detroit Mr. Woodworth attended Wayne State Law school and three years later when his family relocated to Lansing, the plaintiff took and passed the bar exam. Mr. Woodworth was then employed as a research attorney with the Court of Appeals and is apart of the Lansing Law Firm. Shortly after on August 25, 1980 the parties separated. Hence, the issue being presented before the court is whether Mr. Woodworth’s law degree is marital subject to distribution. 2. What was the holding (the court's answer to the issue)? The court valued Mr. Woodworth’s law degree at a value of $20,000. The defendant was awarded the whole $20,000 which would be given to her in payments of $2,000 over ten years. The court based their decision of Mr. Woodworth’s law degree being marital subject to distribution since the plaintiff’s law degree was viewed as the end product of a concerted family effort. In other words, as stated in the background, both parties moved around and based their family life on the single fact and decision that the plaintiff will earn a law degree. The defendant had to make decisions of her employment based on her husband’s life, since she had to prioritize her family and make goals and decisions that included making sure that her husband attended law school and earned a law degree. Moreover, the court concluded that the plaintiff’s law degree was the result of mutual sacrifice and effort by both plaintiff and defendant. It was revealed that while the plaintiff studied and attended law school, that the defendant took care of the whole family and found full-time employment thus, sharing some of the burden and making sacrifices for the greater goal, the plaintiff’s law degree. Therefore, the court decided that it would be fair that the spouse who did not earn an advanced degree, the defendant, be compensated whenever the advanced degree is the product of such concerted family investment. 3. Many states have held that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution upon divorce. Do you agree or disagree? Explain. This question is complex yet, in relation to this case Woodworth v. Woodworth I would have to agree with Judge Burns decision and not the opinion of other states who believe differently. Regarding this case, it is evident that the defendant, Ann Woodworth, revolved her decision making and efforts with the mindset that she must do what is best for the family. Ann Woodworth understood that prioritizing her husband’s schooling and dream of obtaining a law degree was necessary and required to help the marital unit. According to the e-text on PG 341 it discusses DeLa Rosa v. DeLa Rosa case reviewed by the Minnesota Supreme Court. The court in this case added “ One spouse has forgone the immediate enjoyment of earned income to enable the other to pursue an advanced education on a full -time basis. Typically, this sacrifice is made with the expectation that the parties will enjoy a higher standard of living in the future.” In other words, according to the DeLa Rosa v. DeLa Rosa case it is obvious that since the defendant, Ann Woodworth stopped working at times or took a job that was based of her husband’s schedule, to help him pursue his law degree, then it is only fair that based of the spouse’s effort that he/she gets compensated for her sacrifice due to them expecting a higher standard of living in the future. 4. Do you think property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage, also known as separate property, should be subject to distribution upon divorce? Why or why not? According to the e-text on PG 320 property division focuses on the allocation and distribution of property between spouses or ex-spouses after a legal separation or divorce. There are five steps of property divisions: location, classification, valuation, and distribution. When considering whether the property should be subject to distribution upon divorce one must consider the time of acquisition. It was reported that the property was bought before the marriage thus, one of the spouses brought the property into the marriage. The time of acquisition makes many believe that since they bought the property before getting married that they can classify the property as separate property or as their own. However, upon divorce the other spouse has the right to some of the home’s equity upon divorce which I think is completely unfair, but there are rules, laws, and exceptions that judges must consider when making a decision. PART B: 1. Do you agree with the court's decision in this case and why? The court’s decision was to order the payment of all of the suspended child support payments. This decision is tricky since it does mean that the father will not have visitation of his son, Hunter, unless Hunter changes his mind. Yet, the father is still required to pay child support for that child , since the support of the child is not dependent on visitation rights. I agree that the father should continue paying child support since in the end of the day Hunter is his child. Mr. Carroll may not be wanted by Hunter in his life however, Mr. Carroll as the parent must continue to pay child support . Mr. Carroll must understand that the court is doing their best to keep the decision fair. The court wants the best for the child in cases like this, and although Hunter filed a motion to suspend visitation with his father, it does not mean that Mr. Carroll is no longer Hunter’s father. Hunter at any moment can reverse the motion and continue to have visitation with his father again thus, Mr. Carroll should continue to pay child support and I agree with the court’s decision. On the other hand, as an outsider and someone who does not know much about law, I would consider the court’s decision unfair since what sense does it make for Mr. Carroll to pay child support for a child who clearly wants nothing to do with him. o Should the court have considered the needs of the two other children? I don’t think that the court should have considered the needs of the two other children, since this case was regarding only Hunter Carroll. Hunter is 16 years old and made the decision to file a motion to suspend visitation rights for his father. Such a motion would only affect the visitation rights for Hunter and not the other children. However, if the two other children file a similar motion to suspend father’s visitation rights, then I strongly believe the court should conduct a thorough investigation to ensure that the two other children are of age. As well make sure the children are fully aware of such a huge decision, and that the decision was made on their own free will rather than based on other facts and revelation of information. For example, Hunter not liking his dad, the mother not liking her husband, and the grandparents not liking Mr. Carroll. 3. Do you think the court would have ruled differently if it had found that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son's decision to terminate visitation? Yes, I do believe that if there was proof that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son’s decision to terminate visitation that the court would have ruled differently. If Mrs. Carroll told her son all the bad things Mr. Carroll did to her and her family, and bashed his name and reputation, such behavior and attitude would have made the court rule differently. No mother should tell the child to suspend visitation with the other parent without a valid reason. If there was finding that the mother did such a thing ,I would have to agree with the court changing their ruling, since it would change the fact that the child did not enter such a motion on their own free will, but rather where pressured and under duress when filing the motion. 4. At what age do you think a child's decision not to visit with a parent be considered? I personally and strongly believe that the child ‘s decision of not wanting to visit a parent, should be considered when the child has hit an age of maturity. In this case Hunter was only 16 years old and was making remarks of how he does not want to have visitation with his father, and actions such as both Hunter and his father being close to a confrontation may have something to do with his discretion. In my opinion 16 years old is too young for the child to be making such a life-altering and important decision. I understand that the child does not get along with his father however, he is young and even though no proof was found, he most likely is basing his feelings and decisions on the fact that his mother and his grandparents do not like Mr. Carroll. The child at such a young age is confused and does not know what is truly best for them. In the moment Hunter is basing his decisions on the fact that the father left his mom and his other siblings. Such an action must have caused all parties pain thus, I agree with the article regarding the parent’s being responsible to provide the child with what is best for them. The parent’s must not fight in front of the child since such behavior will lead and most likely led to Hunter a 16- year- old boy filing a motion to suspend his father’s visitation which I personally do not agree he should have done at such a young age. Therefore, I personally believe that when the child is 18 years old, the child is more mature and capable to make such heavy decisions, unless there are other factors that are valid such as signs of abuse or neglect, which would guarantee the child to suspend visitation no matter what age. References: Jane Briggs Carroll v. Ira Greene Briggs Carroll. February 7, 1992. Carroll v. Carroll, 593 So. 2d 1131 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 2nd Dist. 1992 - Google Scholar (Links to an external site.) Statsky, William P. Family Law, 6th Edition. VitalSource Bookshelf: Family Law, 6e (Links to an external site.) ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile WednesdayJan 27 at 9:10am Manage Discussion Entry Lesly, thank you for your responses and for listing the specific questions as you responded. Regarding the Woodworth case, you mentioned that the issue before the court was "...was the matter of property division upon divorce." This is an overly broad statement of the issue. Just to clarify, the specific issue before the court was whether the value of an advance degree, earned during the marriage, was subject to property distribution upon divorce. - With today's technology, what would you say is the best way to go about evaluating an advanced degree? - Also, do you agree with the court's evaluation at the time of the decision? Check out this short article on evaluating advance degrees: https://www.goldbergjones-sandiego.com/divorce/divorce-dividingprofessional-degree/ (Links to an external site.) - As to the Carroll case, you raised some very good points about the mother's possible negative influence over the 16yr old causing him to refuse to see his father. If proven, could the father sue the mother for "alienation of affection?" Why or why not? - Also, could she be prosecuted for "interference with custody?" Why or why not? Prof Bansile Edited by Moya Bansile on Jan 27 at 9:21am ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionChristopher Perry Christopher Perry WednesdayJan 27 at 9:30am Manage Discussion Entry Hello Lesly; Wow! There was a-lot of context here, I have enjoyed your court drafted opinion(s), ha. The courts usually draft from law clerks, summaries and briefs of their interpretations and opinions in cases. I enjoy reading them, because the cases looks so theatrical and excitement on holdings of the particular summary. Some of them take a long time to analyze. Some of them are simple and emotional, especially when children are involved. ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionChristopher Perry Christopher Perry TuesdayJan 26 at 9:04pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello Professor; Hello Class; Part A 1). The issue is whether the plaintiff's law degree marital property subject to distribution. 2). The court (verdict) held that the value was $20,000 (split) into the defendants award of $2,000 for ten years. 3). I disagree, although professional credentials and expertise's are used against professionals all the time in courts. By far as using the person's professional credentials for monetary gain, just makes no sense. Legal and of course, medical malpractices is a difference between using someone's degree for profit, makes no sense? (moot). 4). Yes, of course. It happens quite often in divorce courts. It also depends what it is and what it was used in the marriage for. Part B 1). I concur for the sake of the teenager and his well being. The teenager could decide what is best for him. 2). Yes. If the children feel what is in their best interest. Normally the courts asks the children's well being. 3). Yes. That is why the courts ask the children questions and interpret the Childs answers. I assisted in a case, along with a child, we decided who will be the better parent. 4). Age of reason and coherent. Children are smart and could manipulate as well. There are different elements; Dad is next to my best friends house. Mom has the bigger television with the x-box. Ect... Sources Family Law, Sixth Edition; by William P. Stansky. Woodworth v. Woodworth case on pages 339-342. ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile WednesdayJan 27 at 9:20am Manage Discussion Entry Christopher, thank you for your responses and for numbering the questions posed. You make some very valid points. - In the Woodworth case, why do you believe the court took the time to compare and discuss various states' laws on the treatment of advanced degrees before making its decision in this case? - How does your state treat advanced degrees, earned during the marriage, in divorce proceedings today? Based on your reading and research about Property Distribution and Alimony: - How does Property Distribution differ from Alimony (Spousal Support) - If you had to decide between treating the advanced degree as property versus treating the income earned from the advanced degree for the purpose of spousal support (alimony,) which would you say would benefit the payor more: Property Distribution or Payment of Alimony? Why? - As to the payee, which would benefit the payee more, Property Distribution or Alimony? Why? Prof Bansile Edited by Moya Bansile on Jan 27 at 9:21am ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionLesly Rodriguez Lesly Rodriguez WednesdayJan 27 at 10:15pm Manage Discussion Entry Hi Christopher, I agree with your statement of how a person’s professional credentials such as a law degree in this scenario, should not be used for monetary gain. I do agree that it makes no sense that lets say I was married and attending school. I earn a bachelor’s degree in Criminal Justice, but upon divorce my ex-husband files my degree as marital asset that is subject to distribution. I agree with the whole situation making no sense in terms of how fair and just is it that Mr. Woodworth attended law school and passed the bar exam however, his wife who just supported him by taking care of the family should be awarded money. Mr. Woodworth went to school himself, took classes, and passed the bar without his wife helping him with his schoolwork. Yet, in this case the issue presented was that although his wife did not physically help him with his schoolwork, she did make it possible for him to attend classes, and pass the bar, by helping around the house and carrying the burden and making sacrifices for the great good of the family. Thus, I do believe that the wife should have been granted monetary compensation for Mr. Woodworth’s law degree. Lastly, what age do you think is appropriate for the child to make a decision to motion a suspension of visitation rights of a parent? Next, I agree that the court should consider children’s thoughts and best interest when making decisions however, in this case only Hunter’s best interest should be consider and not his other two siblings. ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionWarren Warren WednesdayJan 27 at 4:15pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello, Part A Question One Before the court, the issue was that the court decided whether or not the plaintiff's degree is marital property that was subject to distribution during the time of divorce. Question Two The law degree was a mutual sacrifice and effort put in by both the plaintiff and the defendant. Therefore, the correct response to the issue is to distribute during the divorce as the defendant had also invested in the degree. Question Three I'm afraid I have to disagree. In this case, the advanced degree may have been earned from mutual support from both parties, which makes it marital property and hence subject to distribution (Hirsch, 2020). Question Four No. Separate property is a property earned by one party, and hence it is not subject to distribution during divorce (Pareja, 2020). Part B Question One I agree with the decision of the court in this case. The child filed a motion with his mother's attorney to no more extended need visitation from his father. Therefore, it is like the child is not willing to find support from his father. The court tried to be fair when it instituted no help from the father to the child (Hirsch, 2020). Question Two Yes. The court could have considered the need for the two other children. Children need support from both parents to grow up with all the needs and support they need. A single parent is not likely to provide all the needs that a child needs. Question Three I think the court could have ruled differently if it found out that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with their son's decision to terminate the visitation. The court could not have allowed the motion to go on and allow termination of visitation but rather have allowed the visitation to continue. Mrs. Carroll could have been questioned, and action was taken against her. Question Four At the age of 18, I think a child is considered an adult and can make his own decisions (Sitkoff & Dukeminier, 2017). References Hirsch, A. J. (2020). Technology Adrift: In Search of a Role for Electronic Wills. BCL Rev., 61, 827. Pareja, S. (2020). Deconstructing Foundational Principles of Trusts and Estates Law. Jotwell: J. Things We Like, 1. Sitkoff, R. H., & Dukeminier, J. (2017). Wills, trusts, and estates. Wolters Kluwer Law & Business. ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionAlesha Hopkins Alesha Hopkins WednesdayJan 27 at 11:43pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello warren, Great answers, Part B Question 2, i also agree that the court should have considered the other children needs as well, the relationship between the 16 year old and his father should not depict the relationship and support of the other children. I believe the court should have adjust the child support payment instead of ceasing it. ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMarcia Hill Marcia Hill YesterdayJan 29 at 12:13am Manage Discussion Entry Warren: I like your post. It's detailed and concise. I think that a teenager should be able to make a decision about his or her visitation. In this case, the boy was articulate and intelligent enough to make that decision for himself. It was also a good thing that the judge did not find the mother influenced the boy's behavior in any way, otherwise, this would affect the court's decision with the award granted. I also think that a child deserves the right to visit or not, at any age. There are a lot of things happening under the surface that the child may feel about a non-custodial parent and may not be happy to be with that parent. Case in point, the wife did not coerce the boy's actions at all. It is true that the court makes the decision, but it always goes in the interest of the child, and in some cases, it is not safe for the child to be with that parent. Certainly, in the boy's case, based on the volatile relationship he had with his father, it definitely would not be a good idea to force him to visit. On the other hand, a child deserves support whether he is with a parent or not. Marcy. ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile YesterdayJan 29 at 4:48pm Manage Discussion Entry Warren, thank you for your responses. You raise a great point about the advanced degree. What about the actual investment of time that the degreed spouse put into actually obtaining the degree, how should that be calculated and should that spouse get a larger portion of the degree because of their labor and intellectual property in obtaining the degree? What are your thoughts about this? What is your best argument for not treating an advanced degree as marital property? Prof Bansile Edited by Moya Bansile on Jan 29 at 5:10pm ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionTimothy Moore Timothy Moore WednesdayJan 27 at 5:26pm Manage Discussion Entry Good afternoon class, PART A: 1.The issue before the court is whether or not the plaintiff’s law degree is material property subject to distribution. 2. The court’s holding was yes; a degree is material property subject to distribution. It was the end product of a concerted family effort (Statsky, W. P. (2012). Family Law). While the husband was getting a degree, the wife was sacrificing her ability to gain her own degree. She should be compensated for that. 3. I agree with many states holding that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not material property and therefore should not be subject to distribution. Although a degree holds a monetary value it is useless unless an individual uses it to make money. The money obtained is an asset that can be easily quantified so it is easier to divide it between spouses. 4. Yes, I think property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage, should be subject to distribution upon divorce. I believe a marriage is not only a union between two people spiritually, but also materially. Marriage is about working together, and you cannot do that effectively unless you share all resources and assets. So, by default in my opinion all assets between the couple should be merged even if they had it before the marriage. I still think prenuptial agreements should be able to be used if you want to protect some assets. PART B: 5. I do agree with the court’s decision in this case because the court wants to do what is best for the child. The child needs financial support to live a good life. Although having your father apart of your life can also lead to having a good life it can also cause harm. In this situation forcing a child to see his or her parent could cause psychological damage. 6. Yes, the court should consider the needs of the other two kids, but their needs are being met. 7. Yes, I do think the court would have ruled differently if it had found out that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son’s decision to terminate visitation. I think she could have lost custody of the children. The court would do what is best for the children and having one parent demonize the other parent is not good for the child. 8. I think about 15 or 16 is the age you can consider a child’s decision not to visit with a parent. At that age a child has the ability to form somewhat well thought ideas. At that stage of their life, they have the ability to decide not to be around certain people, especially if they cause them emotional stress. Word count:454 References: Statsky, W. P. (2012). Family Law. [VitalSource Bookshelf]. Retrieved from https://online.vitalsource.com/#/books/9781285632964/ ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionNicole Locke Nicole Locke ThursdayJan 28 at 4:16pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello Timothy, I disagree with you on Part A, question 4. I believe that anything obtained before marriage unless acquired as a couple should not be categorized under marital property. This week has really made me open my eyes about marriage. I went from yearning to be married to having second thoughts. I like that you did mention the prenuptial agreement, as I would definitely now have one drafted and signed before marriage. 73-word count Nicole Locke ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile YesterdayJan 29 at 5:33pm Manage Discussion Entry Timothy, thank you for your responses, and for numbering your answers to keep track of the questions posed. Based on your reading and research,: - What is Emancipation, and what impact does emancipation have on the payment of child support for the benefit of the emancipated child? - In the Carroll Case, could the 16 year old have sued their parents to be emancipated in your state? Why or why not? Prof Bansile ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionCynthia Otero Cynthia Otero WednesdayJan 27 at 6:53pm Manage Discussion Entry Discussion Post – Week 4 PART A: Please read the Woodworth v. Woodworth case on pages 339-342 in the eText and answer the following: 0. What was the issue before the court? The issue before the court was whether the former husband’s law degree could be considered marital property to be subjected to distribution between the parties. (Statsky, 2016, p. 339). During the divorce proceedings, the former wife alleged that both parties contributed to the former husband’s ability to secure his law degree. They worked together as a family to secure his law degree. The former wife found full time work to support the family, and she willing agreed to move to another state where the former husband was able to attend law school. (Statsky, 2016, p. 340). (WC: 96) o What was the holding (the court's answer to the issue)? The court agreed with the trial court’s decision to hold the law degree as marital property and that the former wife was entitled to receive partial value assessed for the law degree. However, interestingly enough, the court agreed with the plaintiff/cross defendant’s request that if the law degree is considered marital property and assessed a value due to the former wife; then the initial property division should be reassessed to include the value of the law degree awarded to the former wife. (Statsky, 2016, p. 342). (WC: 86) 3. Many states have held that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution upon divorce. Do you agree or disagree? Explain. I feel that this issue should be taken on a case-by-case basis. In our subject case (Woodworth), it was apparent that both parties worked together to ensure that the former husband was able to secure his law degree. The former wife did not move forward with possibly securing an advanced degree for herself, but instead worked full time to support the family. She also agreed to relocate to another state so that the former husband could attend law school and secure his law degree; a degree that would allow him to increase his earnings now and in the future. In other cases, both parties may have secured advanced degrees which would put the parties on equal footing. There are other advanced degrees that do not necessarily lend themselves to being valued on a monetary basis, but rather have a nonmonetary value within that career field. (WC: 145) 4. Do you think property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage, also known as separate property, should be subject to distribution upon divorce? Why or why not? I do not believe that premarital property should be subject to distribution upon divorce. However, if marital funds were used to improve the property, the non-owner should receive a credit for their share of the marital funds. (WC: 37) PART B: Please read the following case: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=11572690827881241022&q=c arroll+v.+carroll&hl=en&as_sdt=4,10 (Links to an external site.) (Links to an external site.) 5. Do you agree with the court's decision in this case and why? Yes, I do agree that child support should be paid to the custodial parent. Florida courts have held that child support is not attached to visitation. In this case, despite the father alleging that the mother and maternal grandmother were influencing his son, there was no evidence to support this and so the court refused to speculate on that issue in order to reach it’s ruling. "Carroll V. Carroll, 593 So. 2D 1131 – Courtlistener.Com". Courtlistener, 2021, https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1089814/carroll-v-carroll/ (Links to an external site.). If a parent does not pay child support, the burden falls on the other parent to make up for the missing funds. I would imagine with 3 children, every penny counts. It’s difficult to know the entire history of these two people who apparently cannot co-parent, but you cannot abandon your child just because your child thinks they should abandon you. For all we know, as the oldest child, it’s possible the 16 year old saw or heard things as the marriage fell apart that made him angry towards his father. As the father and son almost had a physical altercation, if I was the trial judge, I would have ordered the parties to therapy. I do believe that 16 years old is old enough to decide if you want to visit your parent, but inside of that 16 year old is a child who needs to know that even if you as a 16 year old are behaving badly, your parent still cares for you. A parent should continue to demonstrate care and concern even if the child is going through a horrible phase. Additionally, as a parent you don’t quit on your child. (WC: 272) 2. Should the court have considered the needs of the two other children? I think the court chose to rule on the issue before it; it did not speculate as to the relationship of the father with the other children. It’s possible that the two other children have a better relationship with their father; every child has their own personality and maybe the younger children are less confrontational with their father or they don’t feel the need to do so. If the father would have been permitted to not pay child support for the older child, this would definitely impact the other children as the mother would have to stretch her funds to cover the funds not being paid by the father. Perhaps, that is why the court ruled in favor of child support as it could possibly impact the lifestyles of the other children. (WC: 132) 3. Do you think the court would have ruled differently if it had found that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son's decision to terminate visitation? Yes, I believe the court would give weight to the case law that supports the position that child support can be suspended when a child refused to visit a parent due to the influence of the other party. (See, Riley v. Connor, 509 So. 2d 1177, 1177 (Fla. 5th DCA 1987). (WC:51) 4. At what age do you think a child's decision not to visit with a parent be considered? I think that regardless of a child’s age, it’s important that when a child requests to not go visit the other parent, an investigation should occur and the child should be sent to mandatory counseling to ascertain why the child feels that way about the parent. It is important to confirm that the other parent is not “poisoning the well.” Additionally, with so many blended families occurring post divorce, it is important to see if someone in the other household makes the child feel unsafe. Having said that, there are some parents that are nightmares so children should not have to suffer that visit. References Statsky, William P. (2016). Family Law, 6th ed., Clifton Park, NY: Delmar Cengage Learning. Retrieved from https://courses.vistalsource.com (Links to an external site.). "Carroll V. Carroll, 593 So. 2D 1131 – Courtlistener.Com". Courtlistener, 2021, https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1089814/carroll-v-carroll/ (Links to an external site.). Riley v. Connor, 509 So. 2d 1177, 1177 (Fla. 5th DCA 1987), which states that "there may be conduct, on the part of a child who ha ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile YesterdayJan 29 at 5:37pm Manage Discussion Entry Cynthia, thank you for your responses and for numbering your answers. Based on your reading and research, assuming that the parties do not have any prenuptials in place, how would spouses go about protecting their pre-marital property from property distribution during the marriage, and before any potential divorce? - What, if any, type of binding contract can the parties enter into to accomplish this? Give a specific name and example. Prof Bansile ReplyReply to Comment ▪ Collapse SubdiscussionCynthia Otero Cynthia Otero YesterdayJan 29 at 10:19pm Manage Discussion Entry Good evening Professor Bansile and classmates, If the parties did not enter into a prenuptial agreement before getting married, they still have the opportunity to enter into a post nuptial agreement. If both parties are willing, they can enter into a post nuptial agreement which would list what is premarital property, what they would like to keep as separate property, what financial accounts are separate from the marital accounts and any and all other financial matters that may exist between the parties. (Statsky, 2016, p. 126). However, if the parties decide to separate and are willing to split things on what they consider a fair basis, they can enter into a separation agreement detailing what is and is not marital property, splitting the marital property, accounts and addressing their debts. (Statsky, 2016, p. 126). Often times if the parties are in agreement, the court will incorporate the separation agreement into the parties' divorce pleadings. (WC: 172) References Statsky, William P. (2016). Family Law, 6th ed., Clifton Park, NY: Delmar Cengage Learning. Retrieved from https://courses.vistalsource.com (Links to an external site.). ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionThiago Matos Thiago Matos WednesdayJan 27 at 9:58pm Manage Discussion Entry Prof. Basile and Classmates, PART A: Please read the Woodworth v. Woodworth case on pages 339-342 in the eText and answer the following: 1. What was the issue before the court? 2. What was the holding (the court's answer to the issue)? 3. Many states have held that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution upon divorce. Do you agree or disagree? Explain. 4. Do you think property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage, also known as separate property, should be subject to distribution upon divorce? Why or why not Answers 1. According to the background presented "While Michael Woodworth went through law school in the 1970s, his wife, Ann, was a nursery school teacher. In their divorce action, she claimed that his law degree was a marital asset that should be divided". 2. In a final decision the State Court ruled "A former husband’s law degree, which was the end product of a concerted family effort, was marital property subject to distribution upon divorce. The case is remanded to the trial court to recalculate the value of the degree." 3. I am obliged to agree. As seen in some decisions cited in the reference book, graduation is an intellectual achievement only. It is not necessarily a heritage. I understand that it should be considered for the purpose of quantifying alimony. However, the case must challenge evidence of sacrifice by one of the parties. As an example, the wife was forced to keep her job longer and this fact prevented her from developing intellectually. After the divorce the husband will have more financial capacity. For a logical consequence He must complement the earnings of those who sacrificed for it. 4. The issue is difficult to assess generically. The specific case may indicate different results. As a rule, it does not seem fair to share properties acquired before the wedding. These properties are the result of enforcing only the part that acquired it. There was no relation to the marriage. On the other hand, and it is necessary to evaluate each case, the property may have been maintained by the effort of both. The property is liable to tax and other maintenance costs. In this case, the couple is likely to have made common efforts to maintain the good. In cases like this I would tend to agree with the division in case of divorce. PART B: Please read the following case: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=11572690827881241022&q=c arroll+v.+carroll&hl=en&as_sdt=4,10 (Links to an external site.) 3. Do you agree with the court's decision in this case and why? 4. Should the court have considered the needs of the two other children? 5. Do you think the court would have ruled differently if it had found that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son's decision to terminate visitation? 6. At what age do you think a child's decision not to visit with a parent be considered? Answers 1. The court reviewing the decision to suspend child support was mandatory. Linking the duty of financially supporting the child to the right to visit disregards basic fundamentals of child protection. In a divorce the most vulnerable part is the child so the law must be interpreted in the child's interest. In all circumstances, parents must provide financial support for their children. This is the basic duty of any parent. It is reasonable that the father also helps the child's emotional growth, when possible. In the case presented, the notorious conflict between father and son hindered the child's development. There is no reasonable reason to maintain the visiting right for the father, much less to force the child to continue having contact with a harmful parent. 2. Surely so. The duty to financially support the child extends to the other children of the couple. 3. Honestly, I can't see any connection between the conducts. The child support duty has nothing to do with whether the child likes the father or not. The duty to feed stems exclusively from the fact that he is the child's father. For me, the eventual mother`s action to remove the child from the paternal coexistence should be evaluated in another lawsuit and should not reflect on the child's best interests. 4. In my opinion, whenever there is a risk to the child, the possibility of visiting should be suspended. The risk assessment must be comprehensive and include criteria for psychological verification. Referee: Family Law, Sixth Edition William P. Statsky Thiago Matos ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile YesterdayJan 29 at 5:40pm Manage Discussion Entry Thiago, thank you for your responses and for numbering the questions posed. You make some very valid points. - In the Woodworth case, why do you believe the court took the time to compare and discuss various states' laws on the treatment of advanced degrees before making its decision in this case? - How does your state treat advanced degrees, earned during the marriage, in divorce proceedings today? Based on your reading and research about Property Distribution and Alimony: - How does Property Distribution differ from Alimony (Spousal Support) - If you had to decide between treating the advanced degree as property versus treating the income earned from the advanced degree for the purpose of spousal support (alimony,) which would you say would benefit the payor more: Property Distribution or Payment of Alimony? Why? - As to the payee, which would benefit the payee more, Property Distribution or Alimony? Why? Prof Bansile ReplyReply to Comment ▪ Collapse SubdiscussionThiago Matos Thiago Matos YesterdayJan 29 at 7:35pm Manage Discussion Entry - In the Woodworth case, why do you believe the court took the time to compare and discuss various states' laws on the treatment of advanced degrees before making its decision in this case? For a Brazilian like me, it is difficult to fully understand a state law regulating family law. In Brazil, the legislative competence in this matter is federal. For me there is an antinomy when one state confers a certain right and another state does not. Family Law refers to the individual and an individual normally circulates between states and relates to individuals from other states. For no other reason the family law federalization of in America is noticeable. In the indicated case the search for arguments in other states seems to me to demonstrate this federalization. As other states have already advanced in this understanding, precedents should be considered as there is no substantial difference between a family in NY and another in CA for example. - How does your state treat advanced degrees, earned during the marriage, in divorce proceedings today? NY law does not resolve the issue well. While indicating graduation as a non-marital asset for the purpose of sharing, it determines that a spouse's efforts to an equitable division of marital property be considered, as below. (N.Y. Dom. Rel. § 236) (7) any equitable claim to, interest in, or direct or indirect contribution made to the acquisition of such marital property by the party not having title, including joint efforts or expenditures and contributions and services as a spouse, parent, wage earner and homemaker, and to the career or career potential of the other party. The court shall not consider as marital property subject to distribution the value of a spouse's enhanced earning capacity arising from a license, degree, celebrity goodwill, or career enhancement. However, in arriving at an equitable division of marital property, the court shall consider direct or indirect contributions to the development during the marriage of the enhanced earning capacity of the other spouse; - How does Property Distribution differ from Alimony (Spousal Support) I must confess that the difference was not clear to me. I would be happy to discuss it. According to the available literature, the differences are assessed against the following criteria: • Labels used in the agreement • Contingencies • Method of payment • The nature of what is transferred If you had to decide between treating the advanced degree as property versus treating the income earned from the advanced degree for the purpose of spousal support (alimony,) which would you say would benefit the payor more: Property Distribution or Payment of Alimony? Why? As a payer I believe that the best would be to understand how property distribution. In this way, the financial disbursement would occur in a single installment based on the amounts spent to acquire the degree. On the other hand, if it were understood to be a pension, the expenses would continue for much longer. As to the payee, which would benefit the payee more, Property Distribution or Alimony? Why? As a payee I have a hard time expressing my opinion. The need will indicate the best path. ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionKatherine Fernandez Katherine Fernandez WednesdayJan 27 at 10:26pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello Professor Bansile & Class, PART A: 1. What was the issue before the court? The basic issue in the court was whether or not the plaintiff's law degree would marital property subject to distribution, and the court decided that it was. 2. What was the holding (the court's answer to the issue)? The court decided that the plaintiff's law degree would count as marital property because the law degree acquired by the plaintiff was both mutual sacrifice and effort from both sides. The e-text states the defendant carried the burden-sharing the stress of law school and that the degree would be a family investment from where all would benefit from. 3. Many states have held that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution upon divorce. Do you agree or disagree? Explain. I do agree with this judgment because while I do understand that a marriage is a shared equal partnership and all acquired together during the marriage should be split if there is a divorce, for something like an advanced degree should not be subject to distribution. While I also understand that in a hypothetical scenario my husband and I are married, and I enroll in law school to complete my degree, my husband won't be the one studying for classes or taking exams on my behalf. Ultimately the responsibility will fall on me to ensure I am on track with my classes and I can excel in my desired law career. 4. Do you think property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage, also known as separate property, should be subject to distribution upon divorce? Why or why not? I don't agree that property acquired before the marriage should be part of distribution if a divorce occurs. The property could be a family inheritance that belongs to one of the parties involved that would have been passed on whether or not the person was married or not. I don't believe a spouse who is part of the divorce should be able to also acquire such property. I would only be able to agree with there was a pre-nuptial agreement signed assessing all means of distribution in case such action should happen. PART B: 3. Do you agree with the court's decision in this case and why? I do agree with the court's decision to be able to pause the child support funds for Hunter until visitation rights would resume because Hunter was the one who initiated wanting to cease visitation with his father. Although there were many other stipulations involved and allegations that his mother had something to do with his decision, the court could not prove those were actual facts. Hunter was sixteen years old and was of sound and conscience mind in making his decision to not have visitation with his father. 2. Should the court have considered the needs of the two other children? I do believe the court should have considered the needs of the other children because there could be a chance that the other children didn't agree with Hunter's decision and wanted to visit their father themselves. 3. Do you think the court would have ruled differently if it had found that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son's decision to terminate visitation? If the court did have evidence against Mrs. Carroll showing that she deliberately was harmfully affecting her son's decision to terminate visitation, then yes I do believe the court would have ruled in favor of the father to grant visitation rights. There would need to have been concrete evidence to show Mrs. Carroll brainwashing her son in a way that made him change his mind about visitation rights abruptly. 4. At what age do you think a child's decision not to visit with a parent be considered? I believe the child's age solely reflects their level of maturity. For this case, there could be sixteen-year-olds who are very immature and would not be able to make a sound decision, or on the contrary, there could be a ten-yearold who could easily choose that they would like to spend time alone with their parent during their weekend of visitation. I think of myself in this example because when I was nine years old, my parents divorced and I was asked about visitation, and I chose to be with my dad on weekends, while my mom was my primary parent with whom I spent most of my time with. I was very mature at that age and I understood that by law my dad had a right to see me if I chose to. Statsky, William P. Family Law. Cengage Learning US, 2012. [VitalSource Bookshelf]. Regards, Katherine WC: 795 ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionIza Gumbs Iza Gumbs WednesdayJan 27 at 11:33pm Manage Discussion Entry Hi Katherine, My post has similar points to what you mentioned in your pertaining to the scenario. I liked how you mentioned in your post "I believe the child's age solely reflects their level of maturity." I had a hard time choosing a specific age as I felt the same way you did pertaining to the child's maturity level, but I chose 13. However I truly agree with you the age of them making their decision should be depending on how they are able to handle the situation as some children may not have a sound mind. I hope you have a great weekend. Iza Gumbs Word Count 109 ReplyReply to Comment ▪ Collapse SubdiscussionKatherine Fernandez Katherine Fernandez YesterdayJan 29 at 1:03pm Manage Discussion Entry Hi Iza, Thank you for your comment on my initial post. I also agree with you that it's hard to put an exact age on a level of maturity. I think about myself and when I had to experience my parent's separation. I was 9 years old, but I understood fully on what was expected from each of my parents and also when I would visit with my dad. I hope you also have a great weekend! :) Regards, Katherine ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionAlesha Hopkins Alesha Hopkins WednesdayJan 27 at 11:34pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello Katherine, Excellent post your to every question was very detailed and gave me a clear understanding of what was being asked. Part B: Question 4, I also agree with you on the maturity of the child, some are very young and their maturity can over exceed their age. The relationship or bond that a child may have with the parent can also be a huge factor as well. you have done an awesome job great work. ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionAdesuwa Owie Adesuwa Owie ThursdayJan 28 at 4:18am Manage Discussion Entry Hello Katherine, For question 3, I feel as though the degree you get should be your own. But i also said that it depends on the circumstances like if your husband helped you with law school, help paid for it, and if they compromised something for you to get that degree. If you got the degree yourself, put in the hours, and paid your own way then your degree should not be split by an circumstances. -Adesuwa ReplyReply to Comment ▪ Collapse SubdiscussionThiago Matos Thiago Matos ThursdayJan 28 at 8pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello Katherine, Although I agree with your answer n.3, I would like to make you a little challenge thinking the question from another side. According to the data provided in the case, the husband used his wife to pay most of the family expenses. So, could I understand that the law school payments were provided by she? If you agree, could I understand the wife made an investment in the couple's future? In that sense, shouldn't she get paid back as she won't use the profits from that investment? Best regards, Thiago Matos ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile YesterdayJan 29 at 5:43pm Manage Discussion Entry Margaret, thank you for your responses and for numbering your answers to the specific questions. In your state, is there is specific guideline for calculating child support? - Also, if the child in question in the Carroll case was very gainfully employed to the point that they could support themselves, would the court consider the child's income in calculating child support? Why or why not? - What is the difference between alimony and separate maintenance? Prof Bansile Edited by Moya Bansile on Jan 29 at 5:57pm ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionCynthia Otero Cynthia Otero YesterdayJan 29 at 10:32pm Manage Discussion Entry Hi Katherine, Excellent post. I do have to say that in the case scenario it was very clear that the former spouse did everything possible to support her husband, both financially and emotionally, so that he could secure his law degree. I enjoy these case scenarios because they give us just enough information to make us think. I think that if someone goes to law school, it would be difficult, but not impossible, to have to work full time and attend law school. Additionally, just studying for the bar requires your undivided attention which means you probably can't work while studying for the bar or need to take time off. The other spouse is holding up the other person so they can achieve their goals. This was especially true for my generation and older folks where people got married young. In today's current society, often times, people are getting married after college or just later on in life (or not at all) so they may be coming into a marriage or relationship already having secured their advanced degrees. If both parties have their degrees, this would be a moot issue. With respect to Part B, I would recommend mandatory counseling before any child can terminate visitation with a parent as if there is such a serious issue that the teenager is almost coming to blows with the parent; those issues will not disappear just because the visits are suspended. (WC: 293) ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionAlesha Hopkins Alesha Hopkins WednesdayJan 27 at 11:21pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello Everyone, Part A 3. What was the issue before the court? The issue before the court was whether Mr. Woodworth the plaintiff law degree is marital property subject to distribution. 2. What was the holding (the court's answer to the issue)? The trail court held that Mr. Woodworth law degree was valued at twenty thousand dollars and awarded this amount to the defendant in payments of two thousand dollars over ten years. 3. Many states have held that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution upon divorce. Do you agree or disagree? Explain. I do agree that advance degrees should not be considered marital property because, they are intangible items. The degree itself only represents the knowledge work of the individual. A degree dose not have a distinct value on it, a degree does not entail the success of one’s career. 4. Do you think property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage, also known as separate property, should be subject to distribution upon divorce? Why or why not? I would have to say that I don’t agree that property brought into a marriage should be subject to distribution upon divorce because, if one spouse brought the property into the marriage the other spouse does not have shared ownership of it the spouse acquired it before the marriage. If something was to happen to the spouse that owned the separate property, then the property will be given to the living spouse. Part B 5. Do you agree with the court's decision in this case and why? I do not agree with the courts decision with suspending child support because refusal of the 16 year old not wanting to visit the non-custodial parent, my reason for disagreeing with this decision is because the other two children will be effected by this, not only is the child support is supporting the 16 year its also supporting the other two. As mention child support cannot be conditioned upon visitation. 2. Should the court have considered the needs of the two other children? I believe the courts should have considered the needs of the other two children. The other two children would still have their visitation with their father and may need the support of him. Child support is intended for the benefit the child and help support financial and living standards. 3. Do you think the court would have ruled differently if it had found that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son's decision to terminate visitation? I do believe the court would have ruled differently if it was found that the mom influenced her son’s decision to terminate his visitation. I believe the motion would have been denied, question would have speculated as to why he filed the motion and what was going on for him terminate the visitation from seeing his father. 4. At what age do you think a child's decision not to visit with a parent be considered? Depending on the situation of the child and the non-custodial whether there is a loving relationship between the two? The age I would consider would be 17, the maturity. Intelligence and the ability to tell the difference between right and wrong could be developed at that age but it truly depends on the individual child. ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionAlesha Hopkins Alesha Hopkins WednesdayJan 27 at 11:28pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello Professor Bansile, I had to revise my post I forgot to include my reference in the first post. Revised Post Hello Everyone, Part A 1. What was the issue before the court? The issue before the court was whether Mr. Woodworth the plaintiff law degree is marital property subject to distribution. 2. What was the holding (the court's answer to the issue)? The trail court held that Mr. Woodworth law degree was valued at twenty thousand dollars and awarded this amount to the defendant in payments of two thousand dollars over ten years. 3. Many states have held that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution upon divorce. Do you agree or disagree? Explain. I do agree that advance degrees should not be considered marital property because, they are intangible items. The degree itself only represents the knowledge work of the individual. A degree dose not have a distinct value on it, a degree does not entail the success of one’s career. 4. Do you think property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage, also known as separate property, should be subject to distribution upon divorce? Why or why not? I would have to say that I don’t agree that property brought into a marriage should be subject to distribution upon divorce because, if one spouse brought the property into the marriage the other spouse does not have shared ownership of it the spouse acquired it before the marriage. If something was to happen to the spouse that owned the separate property, then the property will be given to the living spouse. Part B 5. Do you agree with the court's decision in this case and why? I do not agree with the courts decision with suspending child support because refusal of the 16 year old not wanting to visit the non-custodial parent, my reason for disagreeing with this decision is because the other two children will be effected by this, not only is the child support is supporting the 16 year its also supporting the other two. As mention child support cannot be conditioned upon visitation. 2. Should the court have considered the needs of the two other children? I believe the courts should have considered the needs of the other two children. The other two children would still have their visitation with their father and may need the support of him. Child support is intended for the benefit the child and help support financial and living standards. 3. Do you think the court would have ruled differently if it had found that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son's decision to terminate visitation? I do believe the court would have ruled differently if it was found that the mom influenced her son’s decision to terminate his visitation. I believe the motion would have been denied, question would have speculated as to why he filed the motion and what was going on for him terminate the visitation from seeing his father. 4. At what age do you think a child's decision not to visit with a parent be considered? Depending on the situation of the child and the non-custodial whether there is a loving relationship between the two? The age I would consider would be 17, the maturity. Intelligence and the ability to tell the difference between right and wrong could be developed at that age but it truly depends on the individual child. Reference: www.Simplicable.com www.findlaw.com (Links to an external site.) e-Text: Family Law ReplyReply to Comment ▪ Collapse SubdiscussionAdesuwa Owie Adesuwa Owie ThursdayJan 28 at 4:07am Manage Discussion Entry Hello Alesha, I as well believe that the court would have changed their decision because the son would have been more biased against the father to the court. Also, you make a good point with a 17 year old being more mature to make that decision whether I can agree with. At first my answer was 17, but then I thought at 18, you are probably more wise and you can make that final final decision at 18 starting a new life after graduating school. Overall, great post! -Adesuwa ReplyReply to Comment ▪ Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile YesterdayJan 29 at 5:46pm Manage Discussion Entry Alesha, thank you for your responses and for numbering the questions posed. You make some very valid points. - In the Woodworth case, why do you believe the court took the time to compare and discuss various states' laws on the treatment of advanced degrees before making its decision in this case? - How does your state treat advanced degrees, earned during the marriage, in divorce proceedings today? Based on your reading and research about Property Distribution and Alimony: - How does Property Distribution differ from Alimony (Spousal Support) - If you had to decide between treating the advanced degree as property versus treating the income earned from the advanced degree for the purpose of spousal support (alimony,) which would you say would benefit the payor more: Property Distribution or Payment of Alimony? Why? - As to the payee, which would benefit the payee more, Property Distribution or Alimony? Why? Prof Bansile ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionIza Gumbs Iza Gumbs WednesdayJan 27 at 11:48pm Manage Discussion Entry Hi Alesha, I enjoyed reading your post especially for the question 3 I really like how you mentioned "intangible item". As the knowledge you earn from a degree is something that your spouse would not be able to physically touch or take from you. I shared some similar views that you mentioned in your post. I had a hard time choosing a specific age for the question mentioned as I truly agree with you about intelligence and the ability to tell the difference between right and wrong could be developed at any age but it truly depends on the individual child. I hope you have a great weekend. Iza Gumbs Word Count 113 ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionKatherine Fernandez Katherine Fernandez YesterdayJan 29 at 12:56pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello Alesha, Thank you for your comment on my initial post. To continue that conversation, I do agree that the child, depending on their level of maturity should be allowed to make a decision in regards to the visitation of a parent. While I do understand that there will be different circumstances at hand, for this case, Hunter was of right and sound mind and mature enough to make the decision to stop visitation with his father. Great job! Regards, Katherine ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionIza Gumbs Iza Gumbs WednesdayJan 27 at 11:22pm Manage Discussion Entry Good day Professor and Classmates, 1. What was the issue before the court? The issuse presented in court was whether or not the plaintiff's law degree is marital property and subject to distribution. 2. What was the holding (the court's answer to the issue)? The court agreed that the law degree the plaintiff acquired is considered marital property as it was "the end product of a concerted family effort. Both parties planned their family life around the effort to attain plaintiff’s degree. Toward this end, the family divided the daily tasks encountered in living." (Statsky 2012). 3. Many states have held that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution upon divorce. Do you agree or disagree? Explain. I agree that advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and should not be subject to distribution upon divorce, because when someone earns a degree, it's their degree. The degree does not belong to anyone else other than yourself. Yes, the household would benefit from the degree from the additional earnings but it was the person who earned the degree solely. 4. Do you think property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage, also known as separate property, should be subject to distribution upon divorce? Why or why not? Anything that is earned to the prior marriage should not be subject to distribution upon divorce, because that is what you had before marriage. You got married and the other spouse did not contribute to the property or assist in any way towards the property. PART B: Do you agree with the court's decision in this case and why? I think the court decision was fair as all three children was suffering from the lack of support and the child support payments should not have ceased based on one child. Should the court have considered the needs of the two other children? The court should have considered the other children especially when banning the child support payments based on the visitation of the sixteen year old. Do you think the court would have ruled differently if it had found that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son's decision to terminate visitation? I personally think that when the child filled a motion against the father, the court should have offer mediation or consultation to mend the relationship with the father. If Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son's decision to terminate visitation the court would have ruled differently because that is a form of intimidation or obstruction. At what age do you think a child's decision not to visit with a parent be considered? At the age of 13 I think a child's should be able to make a decision on whether or not to visit a parent because at this age you are able to comprehend or view the world from an adult's perspective. It is also the age of becoming a young adult and being more inquisitive about the adult lifestyle and more. Reference Statsky, W. P. (2012). Family Law. [VitalSource Bookshelf]. Retrieved from https://online.vitalsource.com/#/books/9781285632964/ Iza Gumbs Word Count 531 ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionThiago Matos Thiago Matos ThursdayJan 28 at 8:09pm Manage Discussion Entry Hello Iza, When you answered your position on the court's decision on the child for the visitation, you showed me an important point of view. I never worked with family law and I confess that my positions end up being very emotional. In fact, the court should have acted more intensely to promote interaction between father and son and, perhaps, to discover some inappropriate position of the child's mother. I learned a little more and I thank you for that. Beste regards, Thiago Matos ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile YesterdayJan 29 at 5:50pm Manage Discussion Entry Iza, thank you for your responses. You did a good job of answering the questions posed. Based on your reading and research: - How would you compare and contrast Child Support and Spousal Support? Please give at least three similarities and three differences between these two types of support. - Also, how does alimony differ from property distribution? Prof Bansile ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionAdesuwa Owie Adesuwa Owie ThursdayJan 28 at 3:54am Manage Discussion Entry Hello professor and class, 0. The issue before the court was whether his law degree should be considered as marital property to be distributed between him and his ex-wife. (E-text, pg. 340) 1. Yes, the court ordered for his law degree to be distributed between him and his ex-wife. (E-text, pg. 339) 2. I feel like it should, depending on the circumstances. If your significant other helped put you through school financially and was there for you putting in some work, then it should be considered marital property. If your significant other did not help you at all and it did not affect their circumstances at all, then they should not receive anything from your advanced degree. 3. I do not think that one spouse’s separate property should not be subject to marital property and split between the two at divorce. The definition of separate property is non-marital property that belongs only to one spouse. I feel that the spouse should be able to hold it for themselves especially if they owned it prior to the marriage. Part B: 4. I do agree with the judge’s decision because if the child refuses to visit their parent, then that is their choice. On the other hand, both of the parents are supposed to support the child and provide any financing that is necessary for them. I disagree with the fact that the judge terminated Mr. Carroll’s obligation to pay child support until the child decides to visit him. Although he is not actively seeing his child, he should still support him because that is his child. 5. I believe the courts should consider the needs of the two other children. Those two children matter too no matter what age they are. If they are young, then they deserve to receive financial support form both their parents and if they are older, then they can have input a well. 6. I feel like the court might have rendered the decision because they would probably think that the mom influenced his decision which would make the child biased against the father. 7. I feel like the child should make that decision at the age of 18. I say 18 because that is the age where you are a legal adult, and you have the right to talk to who you want and who you do not want to. At the age of 18, you no longer receive child support, and you have the ability to support yourself. You can decide at 18 whether you want a relationship with your parents or not, but you will be old enough to make that decision. Reference: Statsky, W., 2021. Family Law, 6th Edition. [online] Online.vitalsource.com. Available at: [Accessed 23 January 2021]. Scholar Google. Carroll v. Carroll, 593 So. 2d 1131 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 2nd Dist. 1992 - Google Scholar (Links to an external site.) ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile YesterdayJan 29 at 5:51pm Manage Discussion Entry Adesuwa, thank you for your responses. You did a good job of answering the questions posed. Based on your reading and research: - How would you compare and contrast Child Support and Spousal Support? Please give at least three similarities and three differences between these two types of support. - Also, how does alimony differ from property distribution? - What is the difference between alimony and separate maintenance? Prof Bansile Edited by Moya Bansile on Jan 29 at 5:56pm ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionMarcia Hill Marcia Hill ThursdayJan 28 at 11:52pm Manage Discussion Entry Professor and Classmates: PART A: Please read the Woodworth v. Woodworth case on pages 339-342 in the eText and answer the following: 1. What was the issue before the court? Is the plaintiff’s law degree marital property subject to distribution? 2. What was the holding (the court's answer to the issue)? Yes. The trial court held that it was marital property valued at $20,000, and awarded this amount to the defendant in payments of $2,000 over ten years. 3. Many states have held that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution upon divorce. Do you agree or disagree? Explain. I do not agree with this statement. The advanced degree should be considered marital property because it was gained during the marriage, and was a concerted family effort in which a spouse would assist in one way or the other. Courts have come to the realization that the supporting spouse should be given a remedy in such situations. (Statsky (2013), p. 338-339). In other words, the other spouse has shared in this effort and contributed to benefit the marital unit as a whole. (Woodworth v. Woodworth) In New York, an enhanced earning capacity developed during the marriage through licensing or advanced degrees can still be factored into the judge’s determination of post-divorce spousal maintenance, equitable distribution, or for making a spousal maintenance award. (www.nycbar.org (Links to an external site.)) 4. Do you think property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage, also known as separate property, should be subject to distribution upon divorce? Why or why not? I do not think separate property should be subject to distribution. The couple may exclude that property from the marital estate through a prenuptial agreement. Without such an agreement, there is a presumption that separate property is marital property. Courts have no authority over separate property. (www.nycbar.org (Links to an external site.)) PART B: Please read the following case: 5. Do you agree with the court's decision in this case and why? I agree with the court’s decision because parents have a right to support their children, and support is not dependent on visitation rights. 2. Should the court have considered the needs of the two other children? The other children were not an issue in this case. Even if the court considered them, the sixteen-year-old was adamant that he did not want to see his father and for that reason “his” child support was temporarily withheld. 3. Do you think the court would have ruled differently if it had found that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son's decision to terminate visitation? Yes, the court would have ruled differently, but the court found no reason to believe the mother coerced the sixteen-year-old to behave in this manner, and the father believed that the boy was driven to this emotional juncture by the poisonous relationship of his parents. (Caroll v. Caroll) 4. At what age do you think a child's decision not to visit with a parent be considered? Normally, children do not get to unilaterally decide custody matters for themselves. Most judges understand that once a child reaches their teens (14 /15 /16 /17), it certainly is difficult to force them to visit with a noncustodial parent when they are adamant about not seeing them (but it truly is not the child's decision.) The court will determine whether visitation is in the child's best interest. A parent is entitled to frequent and meaningful visitation unless it is shown that it would be harmful to the child. (www.lawny.org (Links to an external site.)) Marcy Hill WC 656 Work Cited Statsky, William P., (2013) Family Law, Sixth Edition, Delmar 5 Maxwell Drive Clifton Park, NY 12065-2919 USA, p. 339-342. Carroll v. Carroll, 593 So. 2d 1131, Fla, retrieved from http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?+carroll (Links to an external site.) Child Custody and Visitation in New York - LawNY, retrieved from https://www.lawny.org/node/8/child-custody-and-visitation-newyork (Links to an external site.) Divorce and Assets: Marital Versus Separate Property, retrieved from https://www.nycbar.org/get-legal-help/article/family-law/propertyrights/ (Links to an external site.) Woodworth v. Woodworth 126 Mich. App. 258, 337 N.W.2d 332 (1983) ReplyReply to Comment o Collapse SubdiscussionMoya Bansile Moya Bansile YesterdayJan 29 at 5:54pm Manage Discussion Entry Marcia, thank you for your responses. You did a good job of answering the questions posed. Based on your reading and research: - What is "unallocated support?" - Does unallocated support benefit the payor or the payee in terms of the tax impact? - How would you compare and contrast Child Support and Spousal Support? Please give at least three similarities and three differences between these two types of support. Prof Bansile Edited by Moya Bansile on Jan 29 at 5:55pm ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionEimy Figueroa Eimy Figueroa YesterdayJan 29 at 10:22pm Manage Discussion Entry Hi class, PART A: 1.What was the issue before the court? In this case, the plaintiff’s law degree belongs to the allocated marital property. The court of first instance ruled that the value of this sum was US$20,000 and awarded the defendant a payment of US$2,000 within ten years. The plaintiff argued that his law degree was not such marital property. 2.What was the holding (the court's answer to the issue)? The court concluded that the plaintiff's law degree results from the joint efforts of the plaintiff and the defendant. In the course of the plaintiff's study and class, the defendant assumed a common burden and shared responsibility. 3.Many states have held that an advanced degree earned during the marriage is not marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution upon divorce. Do you agree or disagree? Explain. I agree with most states because obtaining an advanced degree is an effort and a learning process that shouldn’t be counted as material possession one person obtain during the marriage; I know it is an effort made by the couples; it’s a personal achievement. PART B: 1.Do you agree with the court's decision in this case and why? No, I can't entirely agree with the court's decision because the other kids got affected by the child support suspension due to Hunter's difference with his dad. 2.Should the court have considered the needs of the two other children? Yes, that was just one child problem with the dad, and the other kids got affected because of the older child problem. 3.Do you think the court would have ruled differently if it had found that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son's decision to terminate visitation? I think it doesn't matter who has influenced Hunter's decisions; the child support's obligation never should be stopped under any circumstance because the parent's visit does not have to interfere with the child's support; kids still need food, clothes, education, etc. 4.At what age do you think a child's decision not to visit with a parent be considered? At the age of 16, it is a good time for a child to decide if it will continue with the parent visit. Sometimes, there are things behind that child suffering during the visits, and sometimes the child is afraid to tell anyone about the situation. References: Statsky, William P. Family Law. Cengage Learning US, 2012. [VitalSource Bookshelf]. Carroll v. Carroll, 593 So. 2d 1131 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 2nd Dist. 1992 ReplyReply to Comment • Collapse SubdiscussionWanda Pichardo Wanda Pichardo YesterdayJan 29 at 11:37pm Manage Discussion Entry PART A: 1.The issue before the court presented in Woodworth v. Woodworth was to determine if the plaintiff’s law degree is marital property. 2. The court wen base on the facts and determine that the plaintiff’s law degree was marital property because it was the end product of an effort the family did together. The family had to move to Detroit in order for the plaintiff to go to law school. While the plaintiff went to school the defendant had to get a full-time job in Detroit to have income coming in the house. The court strongly believed that the plaintiff’s law degree was a result of mutual sacrifice from both the plaintiff and defendant. 3. I believe that a degree earned during the marriage should not be marital property and therefore should not be subject to distribution upon divorce. I believe this because that is someone’s hard work even though your partner will support you and help you through the process of getting your degree that is still your hard work, your hours studying, and staying up late to finish classwork. If I received a law degree after going to school and then my partner receives half of it after a divorce I would be piss because my partner didn’t really put in the same amount of hard work as I did. 4. No, I don’t believe that property acquired by one spouse before the marriage and brought into the marriage should be subject to distribution upon divorce. My answer to this question is like my answer to question number 3. I believe that if this was a property acquired before the marriage it belongs to one individual and not both partners. PART B: 5. In the case Carroll v. Carroll it states “While fully understanding the trial court's attempt to do equity, in this case, we reverse and remand with directions for the trial court to order the payment of all of the suspended child support payments.” I don’t agree with the court’s decision because the child should have a relationship and spend time with his or her biological dad. Also, the father should be responsible for the child until he is 21 and not leave all the bills ad responsibilities to the mom. Even though the child doesn’t wish to see his dad the father still should have his father’s duties and responsibility. 2. The Court should’ve had considered the needs of the other two children because they are still minors and need to spend time with their father in order to have a father and child relationship. Also, the father should have the same responsibility as the mother. Also, we don’t know if the kids want a relationship with their father. 3. I believe that the court would have had ruled differently if they found out that Mrs. Carroll had something to do with her son’s decision to terminate visitations. I say this because if the mother had something to do with it the court will see that it maybe is the mother’s revenge plan towards the father to get him out of her life for good and that the child may want a relationship with the dad. 565 WORDS 4. I believe that a child’s decision not to visit a parent should be considered when the child is 18 years old because the child is no longer a kid and really knows what he or she wants. Reply 
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