The question for Lesson 2 is: by the end of book 4, Plato believes he has demonstrated that Thrasymachus is wrong about justice. What do you think? Has Socrates succeeded in refuting him? Why or why not?

To receive full credit for this assignment, you must:
1) write a post of 6-8 sentences answering this question for yourself, then
2) provide 4-6 sentences of thoughtful feedback on each of at least 3 posts by other people. 

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Andre

I do believe that Thrasymachus is wrong about justice. I think this because he believed that justice was always in interest of the stronger party. This theory does not sit right with me because the stronger party is not always the justified party. The belief of Socrates is that justice does not come from people who have more power, because just because you have more expertise does not mean you have the ability to say what is justified. Socrates believes that everyone has their own ways of knowing what is just. Although a majority of people might think something is justified does not mean it is.

Jasmyne

I believe that Plato throughly articulated the city of justice he conspired however I do not think he proved Thrasymachus was wrong about justice. While debating on what exactly justice is, Thrasymachus claimed that justice relies on the more powerful and that injustice was superior to justice. The method that Socrates uses to explain his argument is building a city that demonstrates how justice within the mind and body correlates all with one another. Although Socrates has all the right foundations within his city, the mind is a powerful thing that I feel is more complex than comparing to one’s body. For example the story of the Gyges ring, if people had the decision to do good or bad without any consequence what would they choose? Many would choose unjust things simply because they can get away with the crime and not face any reparations. Most individuals stick to “just” or “respectable” things because for one they’d probably be punished for their wrongs and two because its self purposeful. However if people had the ability to be invisible and get away with things several would consider. Socrates then conjures the perfect city however, realistically, were not as perfect as we claim to be lol. Some individuals have different instincts, who’s to say these qualities Plato describes for the people would even be apparent to them. Whose to say that a producer would get tired of being an underdog and rebel against a guardian ? Some things are just too good to be true, yes we can set standards to uphold but that doesn’t mean everyone will abide by them.

Michaela

In my opinion, I think that Socrates has successfully refuted Thrasymachus' idea of what justice is. The belief that justice is the advantage of the strong was expanded by Adiemantus that injustice was more beneficial to the individual than being just. Socrates explained first the justice of the "perfect city" and the roles and responsibilities that accompany it. The most educated and loyal guardians of the city were to be the rulers, while the others were auxiliaries or the producers. Each of these roles gives a part to make up the justice of the city, and if each role was fulfilled then the city could be described as being just. There are similarities in the soul of the individual with three parts being: reason, spirit, and appetite. In order for there to be justice within the soul, the three parts must rule in the right order. This order being that reason rules over appetite with the help of spirit. With the definition of justice being defined then if the soul is in injustice then the individual will be trading external goods and praises for the internal health of the soul. Therefore being just is always better than being unjust which I believe refutes Thrasymachus' belief in justice.