Answer and respond to discussion board posts

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FORUM 7: Plato/Socrates
Does living in a country amount to a tacit promise on your part to obey its laws? Why or why not?
Write 1-2 paragraphs in response to the prompt above.


FORUM 8: King
How do you think King would answer the question, "What makes a society just?" Compare his answer to Marx and Engels' views of justice. Clearly state the similarities and differences.
Write 1-2 paragraphs in response to the prompt above.


ill attached two students discussion board posts, I need you to respond to each what do you think or what do you have to say to what they wrote.write it all in separate paragraphs. this is not an essay answer each forum separately.

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Philosophy 231 Professor Trogan Handout: Plato’s Crito Philosophical Background: Social Contract Theory: authority of the government derives from a voluntary agreement among all the people to form a political community and to obey the laws passed by a government they collectively select. This is the theoretical basis of OUR form of government, i.e. representative democracy. One social contract theorist was Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679): In Leviathan, he imagined a pre-social “state of nature” wherein life was “nasty, brutish, and short.” The only right was the right to self-preservation and people pursued their own self-interest. So, people gave the “sword of sovereignty” to someone (the “Leviathan” who could guarantee order). This is a fundamentally PESSIMISTIC view of human nature. Another social contrast theorist was Jean Jacques Rousseau (1712-1778) who wrote The Social Contract and had a more OPTIMISTIC view of human nature. The social contract was not something merely to preserve life, but to advance the “general will” of society at large. Moreover, one can exit the contract if one wishes not to follow it (contra Hobbes). Background of Plato’s Crito: The year is 369 BCE. Socrates surprisingly argues that he must obey the laws of Athens even though he was unjustly condemned. Socrates, in support of his obeying the law, suggests that he is doing so in part because he has made a promise to the state. What we owe the state goes to the heart of political theory because it raises the issue of the basis, if any, of the authority of government. Crito pleads with Socrates to escape, but Socrates argues that two wrongs do not make a right. He recounts what the state has done for him and his family and concludes that he must uphold his promise to obey, even though the law that condemns him to death is unjust. Philosophy 231: The Big Questions Prof. Trogan Handout: Marx/Engels – The Communist Manifesto Karl Marx (1818-1883) and Friedrich Engels (1820-1895) The Communist Manifesto (1848) Reaction to: - Adam Smith (1723-1790), Wealth of Nations (1776) which argued for laissezfaire capitalism – a free competitive market that would work for the common good, division of labor, profit motive - John Locke (1632-1704), Second Treatise of Government (1689), private property results from the mixing of human labor View that freedom of the individual takes priority over the group is subject to some serious objections: 1 – a community is more than an atomistic collection of individuals; it is an organic whole, and the good of each is not necessarily the good of all 2 – notion of “human rights” (equal opportunity to participate in and contribute to society, the right to work under safe conditions, to have access to education, obtain adequate medical care, enjoy a decent standard of living and a secure retirement implies more than leaving people alone to compete with one another) No provision for such rights in laissez-faire capitalism which promotes competition, alienation, envy, corruption, greed result when petty self-interest prevails. Marx and Engels saw the results of Adam Smith’s economic theory - saw workers as abused and degraded children exploited, etc, - divided into two antagonistic classes: the proletariat (an urban population of wage earning workers) and the bourgeoisie (the owners of production, along with bankers and financiers) - all this the result of capitalists who only care about maximizing profits Marx and Engels argue that: - the division of labor results in meaningless repetitive jobs that alienate workers from the product of their labors. - the workers, even though they have mixed their labor with natural materials, do not OWN the result (the capitalist does) - wage labor is necessarily exploitation because workers give more than they receive - “surplus value” from which the capitalist makes a profit is created by paying workers less than the full value of their efforts 1 Marx and Engels advocated: - socialism in place of capitalism where all citizens should own the means of production and their should be rational planning of economic investment and growth. - production should exist for the sake of human need, not private profit - there should be a just distribution of goods and services. - At first a strong governmental role is needed to create such a system but eventually as full equality and universal prosperity is achieved, the classes will disappear and a society of natural cooperative individuals will emerge. - The need for a state will wither away; when this happens, communism, in its ideal form, will emerge 2 Philosophy 231: The Big Questions Prof. Trogan Handout: Marx/Engels – The Communist Manifesto Karl Marx (1818-1883) and Friedrich Engels (1820-1895) The Communist Manifesto (1848) Reaction to: - Adam Smith (1723-1790), Wealth of Nations (1776) which argued for laissezfaire capitalism – a free competitive market that would work for the common good, division of labor, profit motive - John Locke (1632-1704), Second Treatise of Government (1689), private property results from the mixing of human labor View that freedom of the individual takes priority over the group is subject to some serious objections: 1 – a community is more than an atomistic collection of individuals; it is an organic whole, and the good of each is not necessarily the good of all 2 – notion of “human rights” (equal opportunity to participate in and contribute to society, the right to work under safe conditions, to have access to education, obtain adequate medical care, enjoy a decent standard of living and a secure retirement implies more than leaving people alone to compete with one another) No provision for such rights in laissez-faire capitalism which promotes competition, alienation, envy, corruption, greed result when petty self-interest prevails. Marx and Engels saw the results of Adam Smith’s economic theory - saw workers as abused and degraded children exploited, etc, - divided into two antagonistic classes: the proletariat (an urban population of wage earning workers) and the bourgeoisie (the owners of production, along with bankers and financiers) - all this the result of capitalists who only care about maximizing profits Marx and Engels argue that: - the division of labor results in meaningless repetitive jobs that alienate workers from the product of their labors. - the workers, even though they have mixed their labor with natural materials, do not OWN the result (the capitalist does) - wage labor is necessarily exploitation because workers give more than they receive - “surplus value” from which the capitalist makes a profit is created by paying workers less than the full value of their efforts 1 Marx and Engels advocated: - socialism in place of capitalism where all citizens should own the means of production and their should be rational planning of economic investment and growth. - production should exist for the sake of human need, not private profit - there should be a just distribution of goods and services. - At first a strong governmental role is needed to create such a system but eventually as full equality and universal prosperity is achieved, the classes will disappear and a society of natural cooperative individuals will emerge. - The need for a state will wither away; when this happens, communism, in its ideal form, will emerge 2 ...
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